Kambi Group plc (OTCPK:KMBIF) This fall 2022 Earnings Convention Name February 22, 2023 4:45 AM ET
Firm Individuals
Mia Nordlander – SVP, IR
Kristian Nylen – CEO
David Kenyon – CFO
Convention Name Individuals
Oscar Ronnkvist – ABG
Mia Nordlander
So howdy, everybody, and really welcome to Kambi’s This fall 2022 Report. My identify is Mia Nordlander, and I am Senior Vice President, Investor Relations. And I’m right here at the moment with our CEO, Kristian Nylen; and our CFO, David Kenyon.
In the present day, we’ll begin — right here I’m beginning presenting outcomes for the quarter, and thereafter, it is possible for you to to ask questions. You may both name in and ask them by the phone or ship them to me within the net.
So as soon as once more very welcome, and over to you, Kristian.
Kristian Nylen
Thanks, Mia, and good morning. I’ll begin with some highlights from the quarter, after which I’ll hand over to David to undergo the monetary highlights. After which I’ll come again, speak just a little bit about Kambi 2022 and extra particularly concerning the quarter. After which we, after all, do Q&A.
So highlights. To begin with, I’ll say we had a really, very robust monetary and operational efficiency with 30% underlying income progress, and that’s with out one-off cost from PENN. Throughout the quarter, after all, it was World Cup, which is a really odd time of the 12 months in This fall. However I might say we had a really profitable World Cup. I’ll speak about it extra later.
We have now executed three accomplice signings in the course of the 12 months. An important I’ll say is Rei do Pitaco, which is Brazil’s largest each day fantasy sports activities operator. And hopefully that might be a really, very profitable story as quickly as Brazil decides to manage.
And lastly, we now have expanded our footprint in Americas with launches in Maryland and Washington in U.S. and extra retail locations in Ontario and in 4 totally different Argentinian provinces.
So over to you, David.
David Kenyon
Thanks, Kristian. Good morning. Welcome to the monetary part of the presentation. So firstly, the monetary highlights. Income for the quarter was EUR57.8 million. We had a really robust quarter. As Kristian talked about, it was the World Cup, after all, and a powerful sporting calendar, which I will speak by in additional element. That EUR57.8 million features a one-off termination price from PENN in relation to the termination of the contract that was $12.5 million or EUR12.6 million acknowledged on the P&L within the quarter.
Excluding that one-off price, income was EUR45.2 million, which is a 30% improve on the numbers from This fall final 12 months. I feel it is a actually robust end result, particularly as that is now the primary quarter the place we now have no DraftKings within the comparative. So this can be a true underlying progress within the enterprise over 30%.
Prices for the quarter have been EUR39.2 million, barely decrease than we really forecast initially of the quarter. And this was the primary quarter the place we had full prices from Form Video games. This led to an working revenue within the quarter of EUR18.7 million. And when stripping out the PENN price, it was EUR6 million as working revenue.
Extraordinarily robust money circulation within the quarter, EUR17.9 million, and I feel this actually form of rebuilds our stability sheet after the money acquisition of Form Video games. So I will speak extra concerning the money circulation and the stability sheet later. However we’re actually rebuilding the power of that stability sheet with this very robust quarter.
Turning to the total 12 months. So full 12 months 2022 income was EUR166 million. This contains the termination price I simply talked about. Working revenue, EUR34.8 million at a margin of 20.9%. Trying again on the 12 months as an entire, after all, we had some headwinds. This was the primary full 12 months with out DraftKings, which was a serious contributor final 12 months, for the primary 9 months of the 12 months. And we additionally had some regulatory headwinds which impacted our revenues from the Netherlands, which impacted our revenues within the first half of this 12 months.
On the flip aspect, we have had many signings within the 12 months. We have launched into new markets equivalent to Arizona, Connecticut, Louisiana and New York on-line. And we now have a full 12 months of Abios revenues now in our numbers and first 4 months of Form Video games after the acquisition in September, which, after all, each influence the income and the price line of the P&L. So fairly energetic 12 months and I feel general we’re actually pleased with how we have emerged on the finish of the 12 months.
By way of mentioning prices right here, we did speak about we gave a value forecast for the 12 months forward within the report this morning. We talked about full 12 months 2023 complete bills of EUR155 million to EUR175 million. This contains, after all, the primary full 12 months of Form Video games income in comparison with 4 months right here in 2022. And the distinction between the 4 months and the total 12 months is estimated to be EUR12 million to EUR15 million.
So stripping that half out, the precise underlying value base is rising at a a lot slower price than we have seen in prior years. And on the latest Capital Markets Day, I talked concerning the causes for that. And it is actually that we will now profit from years of earlier funding, particularly to cut back progress in our headcount. So that is what’s serving to drive that slowdown in prices within the underlying enterprise.
This slide is an aggregation that we present every quarter of the underlying efficiency. It is an aggregation of the — all of the operators within the community. The orange line is the operator buying and selling margin throughout the portfolio. That was 8.1% this quarter. The blue columns characterize an listed aggregation of the turnover of the community. This turnover was up 20% versus This fall final 12 months. In fact, This fall is at all times a powerful sporting quarter. We have now a full quarter of the U.S. sports activities, NFL, NHL and basketball, all contributing considerably. And we now have the World Cup. In fact, this did displace fixtures within the main European leagues. So there was a draw back there. However general, we have — the turnover from the World Cup really contributed to a web constructive in comparison with these fixtures that have been displaced.
So general, we did see 20% progress year-on-year, which we’re extraordinarily pleased with. We expect it is wonderful progress throughout the portfolio. I feel we should always word that it may even have been higher really. We word feedback from one in every of our operators, PENN, who talked a few decreased give attention to acquisition of consumers, which has led to them having a decrease market share in key states. So these numbers right here, I feel, really is a constructive read-through for the remainder of the portfolio. They’re really rising at a sooner price than you see indicated by this chart. So general, we’re actually pleased with these underlying progress numbers within the enterprise.
This graph exhibits the income conversion from — beginning at operator turnover progress, 17% improve on a like-for-like alternate charges, after which factoring in all the weather, which finally find yourself in our income progress of 66% in the proper hand column. Working margin was 8.1%. That in comparison with 7.8% this time final 12 months. In order that was a constructive contribution versus This fall final 12 months. And as I discussed, it is the primary full quarter of Form revenues, roughly EUR3 million, which is an add-on, after all, to what we had this time final 12 months. And this — after the Form contribution there, it is a 30% progress versus this time final 12 months. Then including in these PENN termination charges of EUR12.5 million acknowledged right here within the P&L, that takes us to the 66% progress of the enterprise.
It is also been, as I discussed earlier, a very robust quarter when it comes to money circulation. We began the quarter with EUR45.6 million within the financial institution. We made EUR6 million working revenue excluding PENN charges. In fact, we did get in that EUR12.5 million I discussed. We additionally acquired the primary tranche of the transition charges for assist companies we’ll provide within the coming years within the contract we introduced late final 12 months. And so we had the primary EUR5 million of these transition charges acquired within the quarter. So EUR17.5 million in complete in that PENN charges column.
Actions in working capital embrace cost of our company tax and a small improve in our debtors. And the web impact of all these actions is to extend our money place to simply over EUR60 million on the finish of the quarter. And I feel that is actually vital that we strengthened our stability sheet once more after we made the total — the acquisition of Form totally in money. And this actually opens up our future choices to make use of our stability sheet to assist our future progress of the enterprise.
And with that, I will move you again to Kristian.
Kristian Nylen
Thanks, David. So sure, simply earlier than I’m going into This fall, I want to say just a little bit about Kambi 2022 in overview as nicely. So I feel this has been an important 12 months, just a little bit calmer than we now have been used to in 2020 and 2021. We have now some actions on a few of our key prospects, COVID and so forth. However this 12 months I really feel we obtained the chance to essentially get again to the core of our enterprise. And as lots of you understand, we had the Capital Markets Day, the place we introduced our technique going ahead and establishing some targets for {that a} month in the past.
Different issues that occurred in 2022. We agreed extensions with two of our main prospects, Kindred and betPARX. And that is, after all, crucial to have some monetary stability. We prolonged our attain in Americas with fairly just a few totally different signings. We had in complete 9 accomplice signings in the course of the 12 months, which is a document in itself. I’ll go extra intimately in Rei do Pitaco, which I discussed earlier as nicely. We additionally did Nice Canadian in Canada and Ondiss in Argentina as two different vital ones. We accomplished greater than 60 on-line and on-property launches in the course of the 12 months, once more, demonstration — demonstrating our operational functionality to launch with our prospects as quickly as new laws opens up. And at last, we did a serious leap in our UX functionality, buying Form Video games, which provides us one other — broadening our product. We have additionally been capable of in-house provide our prospects native apps.
In This fall, we had the World Cup, which, after all, is a really unusual timing. Nonetheless, it was the most effective World Cup event in Kambi’s historical past. In fact, it was a major discount within the variety of home fixtures. I consider our prime 10 leagues, it was roughly two-third of a traditional 12 months. And nonetheless, we now have 64 matches from World Cup. We nonetheless got here out what we estimate a web constructive in comparison with having the home soccer. So very, more than happy with the results of World Cup.
However extra importantly, I feel we had a tremendous product, very a lot pushed by what we’ll speak extra about, our third technology buying and selling capabilities. However all in all, very, more than happy with the product we have been capable of ship to our prospects and the results of it.
And as I mentioned, we now have launched our third-generation buying and selling throughout World Cup. We mentioned it in-depth at Capital Markets Day, so please hearken to that if you wish to have a extra in depth perception in it. The rollout throughout World Cup may in all probability not have gone higher. We stress examined it at absolute most scale and delivering a extra expansive product than we had earlier than and with a greater end result.
For example, throughout knockout fixtures, we may in 90 seconds publish greater than 500 new markets, giving our prospects, after all, the first-to-market chance for very finish customers. However for us, it is also a large value effectivity going ahead, having the ability to publish robotically so many markets as an alternative of as earlier than a number of the particular markets needed to be executed by guide labor. Since World Cup, we now have rolled out this product on all the main European leagues equivalent to Premier League, LaLiga, Champions League. And now it is roughly 60% of our pre-match turnover on soccer. Within the weekends, it is even greater.
We’re planning to roll this out later within the 12 months in-play sport as nicely. And after that, we expect to roll out extra sports activities, hopefully yet another throughout this 12 months. Generally, you possibly can say that this functionality has already improved the participant expertise and it is constructing in the direction of what we count on to turn into an increasing number of a limitless sportsbook sooner or later.
As highlighted beforehand within the quarters, we now have a market-leading Guess Builder product. We began creating our Guess Builder product in 2018. And I might say now it is extra about actually tweaking and making it higher and higher. And through Tremendous Bowl, we really have been capable of introduce it in-play and provide money out for Tremendous Bowl bets.
In the present day, although, I want to focus just a little bit on pricing. And the rationale I want to speak concerning the pricing is as a result of there’s been fairly a dialogue on different boards about margins. To do pricing accurately — after all, it is a huge work. You must work with very, very giant datasets. In fact, you must have nice algorithms. And once more, right here, the third-generation buying and selling will turn into an increasing number of vital. Ideally, you might have some buying and selling experience. Even in the event you can automate rather a lot, there are some conditions the place you continue to wish to have the guide enter.
In Kambi, we now have a novel community of knowledge spanning throughout the globe of hundreds of thousands of customers, which additionally provides us an important supply of enter to get to essentially the most correct pricing. I wished to point out you an instance, and this isn’t a random instance. It was featured in a Wall Road Journal article, the place we in contrast FanDuel and DraftKings pricing. Our worth was, after all, not in contrast there. However simply to provide you an instance right here. On this random instance, they took Kansas Metropolis Chiefs to win the Tremendous Bowl. Travis Kelce to attain a landing and the identical for Jalen Hurts. After we checked out this worth, FanDuel and DraftKings was roughly 7 occasions the cash, Kambi had 8.50 occasions.
I’ll say that our worth has roughly 15% theoretical margin. If that is the case, it could imply that FanDuel and DraftKings has roughly 30% theoretical margin. You may, after all, decrease to that quantity and create a greater, higher margin for the operator. However I’ll say that’s the mistaken solution to go. With a better worth, you may create a a lot, a lot stickier product, higher UX for the top person and they’ll spend their cash over a very long time, however hopefully — and we’d count on the client to spend extra money at a better worth than we might do on decrease costs.
So going into our acquisition of Rei do Pitaco. I feel that is very, very thrilling. Brazil is clearly a large market when the regulators resolve to open it up. Considered one of our main targets in Brazil was Rei do Pitaco, and we’re very, very proud to signal them. They’ve a large database as a fantasy operator. And we count on and hope that we will emulate what DraftKings and FanDuel did within the U.S. when the U.S. market opened, and for Rei do Pitaco to turn into a number one participant in Brazil. We hope that this market might be regulated someday late 2023 or 2024. Throughout This fall, we additionally signed LMG in Puerto Rico and Nice Canadian in Ontario, however we lined that within the Q3 report already.
In This fall, we continued by numerous launches throughout the Americas. We launched into two new states, in Maryland on-line and in Washington State, the place we opened up a retail on line casino. In Canada or particularly Ontario, we launched a number of properties for each Nice Canadian and Mohegan in the course of the quarter. And in Argentina, we continued our growth. We have now launches in 4 new provinces with On line casino Membership. LATAM is step by step turning into a an increasing number of vital marketplace for Kambi. We have now a powerful place and we imagine it is having nice potential, notably with Brazil on the horizon.
It has been a busy interval after This fall. Most significantly for us, we now have prolonged our partnership with Rush Road. Rush Road was our first U.S. operator after PASPA. And it is one of many main operators in U.S., but in addition in Colombia and in Mexico. We prolonged our partnership with Solar Worldwide, a number one operator in South Africa. We launched on day one in Ohio, the place we powered 9 launches on a market opening day of 1st of January. And ultimately of January, we additionally launched a retail sportsbook in Massachusetts and we hope for on-line to be launched in March.
And at last, ultimately of — sure, we now have additionally executed two new partnerships with Miami Valley Gaming in Ohio and del Lago Resort & On line casino in New York, each retail and each already on stay. Kambi is now stay in 21 U.S. states and well-established because the primary provider within the U.S. market.
Additionally after This fall, we, after all, had our Capital Markets Day. And as we communicated final month, we now have adopted new monetary targets to attain revenues of two occasions to three occasions the total 12 months 2022 determine, an EBIT of at the very least EUR150 million. These targets are largely depending on just a few key progress drivers, which I’ll speak just a little bit extra about now.
First, I feel it is very, crucial for us to retain our key companions. And a superb signal is that we now have already this 12 months prolonged the contract with Rush Road. And I hope you will note extra coming this 12 months. Earlier, I spoke concerning the third-generation buying and selling capabilities. We’re at the moment rolling it out on soccer and I hope we’ll proceed with extra sports activities. And I feel that is very, very profitable for — vital for our success, each in the case of our product high quality, having the ability to have a number one product, however it additionally can have a really large influence on our value effectivity.
We’re already a transparent market chief, as I mentioned, within the Americas, however I feel we have to maintain that place and lengthen it into new markets as we roll out. And there are just a few key markets extra vital than ours, specifically Brazil, Texas and California, which we hope and imagine might be regulated throughout subsequent coming years.
We should be very profitable with our modernization technique as we communicated in the course of the Capital Markets Day. We have now executed just a few signings — just a few acquisitions with Abios and Form. However we additionally should be very profitable with Kambi’s, sure, I will say, personal portfolio to have the ability to modernize that and signal Tier 1 prospects. And at last, we have to launch a serious regulated Asian market. And we’re trying particularly at two right here: Japan or India. If we’re profitable with these drivers, we’re very assured that the EBIT goal of EUR150 million could be very achievable.
So to summarize the quarter. We had a superb monetary end result. We have now progress throughout varied KPIs. We had a really profitable World Cup. And I might say that is coming in 1 / 4 the place the monetary strain globally is sort of powerful. So more than happy with the outcomes.
The third-generation buying and selling efficiency, once more, underlies the long run potential we now have. And the success we had throughout World Cup could be very, very promising. And having laid out our technique in the course of the latest Capital Markets Day, we really feel we’re on a path to vital progress and construct in the direction of the 2027 targets. Thanks very a lot.
Mia Nordlander
Thanks, Kristian and David. Now it is time for Q&A. And as I had talked about at first, you possibly can both name in your query or ship them by the online to me. So over to the phone convention, I feel. Do you might have any questions?
Query-and-Reply Session
Operator
[Operator Instructions] The following query comes from Oscar from ABG. Please go forward.
Oscar Ronnkvist
Thanks. Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. So to start with, simply apologize prematurely if I ask you something that’s already talked about as a result of I missed a small a part of the presentation. However to start with, I might similar to to get the sense of in the event you had any influence from the Mattress Mack giant win. So for instance, Kindred had a fairly substantial destructive influence within the U.S. at the very least. However are you able to say the rest about your influence? Is it substantial?
Kristian Nylen
I do not wish to go into precise particulars, however we took two bets, one for Kindred, as you say, and in addition I feel PENN has talked about that they’d a guess from Mattress Mack. So there’s some influence for us in the course of the quarter, sure.
Oscar Ronnkvist
Understood. Thanks. Then on — perhaps a query for David. Simply the rationale behind the extensive OpEx steerage. As a result of I imply, just a little bit relying on the extent, it represents fairly a considerable a part of EBIT, I assume. Is there any motive why it is like EUR20 million within the vary?
David Kenyon
Sure. Thanks for the query. I imply, I might say, clearly, there are extra components of our enterprise now. Clearly, with the Form Video games acquisition lately, there’s form of extra components we now have to forecast. And particularly on Form Video games, there it is undoubtedly a case of having the ability to match value progress to income alternatives. So that they need not develop the prices actually until these income alternatives current themselves. In order that robotically provides us just a little bit extra form of breadth in what the price may be relying on the place the income goes.
Add that to all of the components of the enterprise we talked about on the Capital Markets Day, the expansion of [Xalgo] (ph) buying and selling or the algo buying and selling, the expansion of Abios in the direction of revenues, and naturally, the uncertainty in the price base usually when it comes to the worldwide financial place. There’s at all times form of elements flowing round. I feel that is why we gave a barely broader form of vary this time.
Oscar Ronnkvist
All proper. Okay. For the reason that acquisition of Abios and Form Video games, I imply — as a result of I imply, numerous your value base is form of fastened, proper? So I imply, you do not actually have numerous variable prices within the OpEx in the intervening time. Or appropriate me if I am mistaken right here.
David Kenyon
No, that’s appropriate. That is appropriate. I imply there’s some — there’s the information prices, which, once more, are impacted by the revenues — sure, by the purchasers that we enroll with. So once more, that is one which’s variable. However broadly, the bulk is fastened. So we have got a fairly tight view on the turnkey enterprise, the place the prices are with that’s extra on these different shifting components, the brand new modules within the enterprise that include a bit extra — form of barely extra uncertainty from our perspective. So therefore the broader vary.
Oscar Ronnkvist
Okay. Sure, I see. Then simply — you have been on the ICE convention lately and I visited myself and noticed some constructive suggestions, primarily on the third-generation algo-trading and in addition, I imply, a bit on the Guess Builder. Are you able to share something out of your aspect? Did you obtain numerous curiosity for the modularization? And in addition what have been the type of key highlights from potential shoppers on the Guess Builder? I imply, you clearly provide higher costs, for instance, within the Guess Builder provide. How do you be sure that the betters really get conscious of these variations in pricing?
Kristian Nylen
Sure. So sure, I might say ICE was a very, actually good venue once more after final 12 months when it was simply earlier than Easter and it was fairly sluggish. It was packed and it was an important curiosity for us. I personally was in assembly rooms more often than not. So I haven’t got the primary time the knowledge what occurred on the ground. However what I’ve heard, it was an important curiosity for all modules actually. I feel it was numerous curiosity from each — in the case of Abios, Form, the algo-trading and Guess Builders. So very, very constructive throughout the board, I might say.
You touched on one other factor right here as nicely with Guess Builder and the pricing. I feel we reacted just a little bit on it recently concerning the discussions about margins from totally different varied U.S. operators. So I feel that is one thing we’ll actually push operators to pay attention to how good pricing we now have. And I feel we might not have executed an important job to date on it, however you possibly can make sure that that’s prime on thoughts for us to be sure that our present operators and, after all, new prospects are very, very privy to our pricing and what the numerous distinction it’s. And this may turn into an increasing number of evident when money out turns into extra of a given product for Guess Builders.
Oscar Ronnkvist
Sensible. Thanks. Only a remaining query on RDP in Brazil. So clearly, we’re seeing like FanDuel and DraftKings with first rate conversion charges to the sports activities betting product from the fantasy prospects. However are you able to give any particulars — do you might have any sense of what the type of common spending per person in Brazil is in comparison with the U.S., for instance? As a result of I imply, 40 million in downloads is sort of a considerable quantity, however then, I imply, type of the common income per person.
Kristian Nylen
I am sorry. I haven’t got that figures as I am unable to actually provide you with something on it. However Brazil is a really, very giant nation. Clearly, they do not have the identical monetary means as Individuals. So it’s best to count on a a lot decrease common spend per buyer. However having mentioned that, with the dimensions of the nation, it is very, very thrilling.
Oscar Ronnkvist
Understood. That was all for me. Thanks very a lot.
Operator
[Operator Instructions] There aren’t any extra questions right now. So I hand the convention again to the audio system for any closing feedback.
Mia Nordlander
Okay. Thanks. We have now just a few questions really right here. We begin with you, Kristian. Are you able to elaborate a bit on once you count on to have the ability to begin promoting the Guess Builder as a standalone mannequin? And do you might have any plans what the second mannequin may very well be as a standalone product?
Kristian Nylen
We’re promoting as we converse. After we will signal a buyer, I do not know. I might additionally say that the pipeline for the total turnkey product could be very, very robust in the intervening time. So it is just a little bit a query on what to prioritize in the intervening time. However I undoubtedly hope nonetheless that we are going to have one thing in place. Sure, we have been in just a few quarters at the very least. I do not wish to broaden an excessive amount of about what’s the subsequent module, however we’ll begin advertising.
Mia Nordlander
Okay. And one other query concerning Guess Builder, how will the pricing mannequin seem like, greater or decrease rev share than signing an entire platform? Something you possibly can elaborate there.
Kristian Nylen
Sure. I assume, it ought to at all times be a reduction in the event you take the total product and in addition the Guess Builder is a really complicated half in comparison with, as an example, the straight cash line costs on a prime league in soccer, as an example. So it’s going to undoubtedly be greater pricing on a Guess Builder than a full product.
Mia Nordlander
Okay. And one other query for you, Kristian. Do you suppose one of many large U.S. operators may have been worthwhile already at the moment with a third-party sportsbook supplier moderately than going in-house?
Kristian Nylen
Sure. I do suppose so. Having mentioned that, I assume, the most important value we now have in the intervening time is advertising moderately than the construct of a sportsbook product. However I feel they’d have a extra strong product service. So I feel that may have been attainable, sure.
Mia Nordlander
Okay. And fairly just a few questions right here. One other one for you right here. your pipeline, are there any contracts you had hoped to safe which have fallen off? Or does it stay intact?
Kristian Nylen
I do not actually wish to touch upon the pipeline on issues that we’ve not introduced. However I can inform you this a lot. I am nonetheless very, very enthusiastic about our pipeline.
Mia Nordlander
Nice. And this can be a query, one other one for you, Kristian. Which operator is your largest buyer in Europe?
Kristian Nylen
I feel that’s fairly apparent nonetheless. And I feel I can — sure — so sure, it is nonetheless Kindred by fairly an enormous margin, I might say.
Mia Nordlander
And we’ll disclose in our annual report as nicely our 3 largest prospects as nicely, which we do yearly. So new numbers will come out quickly. Right here — just for you at the moment, Kristian. Do you might have any feedback on the efficiency by Tremendous Bowl comparatively to final 12 months? And the way ought to we take into consideration the prospects for March Insanity?
Kristian Nylen
Sure, I feel Tremendous Bowl was nice. I feel particularly, we’re very, more than happy with the efficiency. We had an important providing and excellent uptime. So actually, actually pleased about what we have been capable of do, particularly having the ability to provide Guess Builders in stay and with money out. So more than happy. And I hope we now have some good new options for March Insanity as nicely.
Mia Nordlander
Nice. When ought to we count on full third-generation rollout throughout soccer?
Kristian Nylen
Soccer as in soccer?
Mia Nordlander
Sure. Sorry. I feel so. Sure, I feel it is soccer.
Kristian Nylen
Someday in the course of the autumn, I hope we’re there.
Mia Nordlander
One other one for you, Kristian. Giving decrease common play values in Brazil, do you count on much less competitors in Brazil?
Kristian Nylen
Probably not. I imply, Brazil is a large nation. So I feel — sure, we see fairly powerful competitors already in Latin America, so I might count on to say. I feel one factor that makes it just a little bit trickier technically is when you might have very low stakes. The price of taking a guess turns into a little bit of a factor you must take into consideration. We really feel very able to dealing with that. However it could be 1 or 2 suppliers or operators however may get into points with that.
Mia Nordlander
I feel that was it. I feel we now have no extra questions. Okay. Thanks very a lot, Kristian and David. We might be again the twenty sixth of April with our Q1 report. And in case you have any additional questions, be at liberty to succeed in out to the IR division, both to myself or my colleague, Chris Stutzman. We’re very pleased to reply your questions. So thanks very a lot for at the moment, and have a very good day.
Kristian Nylen
Thanks.
David Kenyon
Thanks.
